Untucked Episode 73

Listen to our newest podcast episode where we discuss unattainable goals, separating sports by sex, and standardized testing.  The full transcription is below or you can follow this link to listen.

Meghan Tait: [00:00:00] Hey guys. Welcome to the newest episode of Untucked. Today we are going to talk about goals and, uh, specifically unattainable goals and how we kind of handle that. How we handle that part of our process. We’re going to discuss separating sports by sex. And finally, we’re gonna talk about IQ tests, standardized testing, and whether or not it has a place, uh, hope you enjoy.

I. The opinions expressed on this podcast are our own, and they do not reflect the opinions or views of FC Advisory, the Financial Coach group, or the New Wealth Project. Nothing discussed on this podcast should be interpreted as investment advice. Welcome to episode 73 of Untucked. This is Megan and

Jeff Mastronardo: Mike.

And this is Jeff. You guys are familiar with the Rhode Island. School of Design. Rdi. Rdi. [00:01:00] Do you know what their mascot is? Uh, no. No. It’s a penis. His name is Grody. Literally their call sign is Goads . My . Do you freaking believe that are,

Meghan Tait: do they have sports

Jeff Mastronardo: teams? I have no idea. I don’t, I don’t think you need a sport team to have a MAs.

you don’t, Why?

Mike Traynor: What would be the purpose? Just to be like your, just to, to have some kids dressed up.

Jeff Mastronardo: Oh, so you

Meghan Tait: You don’t have a sports team, and then you’re gonna just choose to be the,

Jeff Mastronardo: Look, we’re, we’re taking a tangent here. I don’t know if they have a sports team. They might, regardless if they have a sports team or not.

Their mascot’s name is Grody.

Meghan Tait: Here’s to Nads that don’t shrink in the cold. , go nad. Oh, they have a hockey team. There you go. A person costume. Didn’t know that as a penis [00:02:00] serves as the mascot. Wow. Let’s see if I can find a picture. I’ll throw a fun

Jeff Mastronardo: fact at you, . Oh,

Mike Traynor: did you know that? For every person on the planet, every human on the planet, seven, 8 billion.

There are 2.5 million ants.

Jeff Mastronardo: I did know that actually. You did? I did. Yeah. That is disgusting. Yeah. A lot of ants on this. It’s it’s a lot of ants. Yeah.

Meghan Tait: Mm-hmm. . Um, okay, so like, do I have to come prepared with a fun fact now? Next? No, no. I

Jeff Mastronardo: think rats in the state of, in the city of New York outnumber humans by like, 20 to one, some ridiculous number.

Meghan Tait: I don’t like these kinds of fun facts. I prefer the penis mascots. Okay. Any more fun facts to add?

Jeff Mastronardo: No, that’s all I got.

Meghan Tait: All right, Jeff, the floor is yours, .

Jeff Mastronardo: Mike, [00:03:00] you are currently a Phillies fan, are you not? No. You said you’re watching once they get into playoff.

Mike Traynor: No, no. The same role with the Sixers. They have, Sixers have to be in the conference finals, and the Phillies have to be in the.

What do they call it? The n

Jeff Mastronardo: nl Nlcs. I don’t think that’s what you said. Nope, I’ve always said that. We’ll go back to the tapes. We might have to not the first round. Stay out. Not the first round. I don’t want you. We don’t want you. Phils are in the playoffs. What was interesting is last night they got Cru uh, I think that was obviously.

They went out pretty hard the night before. Everyone was blacked out. Yeah. Yeah. So here’s my take on the fills. There’s still like positioning issue. They can play the St. Louis Cardinals, which is likely to happen. Oh no, they’re playing the

Meghan Tait: Cardinals. Oh, it’s official. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it came out already

Jeff Mastronardo: I guess because maybe the Padres won yesterday and we lost, There was no way for us to jump the Padres.

Meghan Tait: Okay. Yeah. They play [00:04:00] Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Cardinals. Friday. Yeah, Saturday. So it’s best of three, right?

Jeff Mastronardo: Best of three, yeah. Oof. First of two. So there was a chance they could have played the Met. And I was like, Let’s do it. Yeah. Let’s play the Mets like in a three game series. Take game one. Anything can happen.

Um, no. I like the chances against St. Louis. We’re gonna have our starting pitchers aligned Wheeler, Nola, and I think probably Rangers Sws, if not Zach Lin, I don’t know if Zach Flin will be ready to go. Mm-hmm. . So they got a legit chance. I mean, Noah just pitched a no-no through like six innings into the seventh inning and he had a great out outing his last outing.

they’re in, baby. Should be fun.

Mike Traynor: Eagles

Jeff Mastronardo: are four and Oh, Eagles are four.

Meghan Tait: And Oh, I like that. Pivot . Yeah.

Jeff Mastronardo: You had them winning like 16 games this year?

Mike Traynor: I think I said I, I think I said

Meghan Tait: 11. I think you were 11. Yeah. And we were 10. Yeah. Okay.

Jeff Mastronardo: [00:05:00] Yeah. I mean, I don’t know, man. They look pretty legit. Yeah. Jaylen looks legit.

The, the effect of having AJ Brown on the on the field is,

Meghan Tait: Yeah, I had no idea how good he was at football. The ripple

Jeff Mastronardo: effect. Oh God. , he’s a monster man. He’s an absolute beast. Yeah. So they have the Cardinals on Sunday in Arizona. I believe you’re correct. Thoughts. How do you feel Kyle Merley? Kyle or Murray?

Meghan Tait: Zach Ertz.

Jeff Mastronardo: Zach Ertz.

Meghan Tait: Yeah. Uh, I like their chances. . I, I mean,

Jeff Mastronardo: can you name another player on the, on the Cardinals? Is

Meghan Tait: Larry Fitzgerald still in the Cardinals ? No,

Jeff Mastronardo: I think he’s in the league anymore.

Meghan Tait: Uh, no. I cannot, Which is why I don’t have a lot of thoughts. Yeah,

Mike Traynor: I mean, they’re due for a [00:06:00] loss, right? I mean, they, they looked like they were.

Lose to Jackson Lose the other day. Went in the first half or first quarter, but they got it together. I, you know, I mean, they’re not gonna go 17.

Meghan Tait: They’re not gonna go 17 to know Jeff.

Jeff Mastronardo: I mean, I have them winning the Super Bowl now,

Meghan Tait: so , oh my God. I saw on Twitter, somebody bet the Phillies to win the World Series, the Sixers to win the NBA Championship and the Eagles to win the Super Bowl. A $25 wager with a $500,000 payout. Oh my gosh, I would’ve taken that in a heartbeat.

You probably can’t make it anymore. Right? Cause I don’t even know if the Phillies were, they weren’t in the playoffs at that point.

Jeff Mastronardo: Do you imagine if the Phillies, like for in some, just back to the playoff planet, won the World Series and you had that be, and then you have like, Unbelievable season by the Eagles and they win the Super Bowl.

And then you have the Sixers lose in the second round. , [00:07:00] can you imagine Fun . That’s uh, it’s a, it’s a good time for Philly sports right now.

Meghan Tait: Yeah. So flyers, When do they start? Uh,

Mike Traynor: next week. They’re, they’re as bad as advertised I think so far. Um, was it you

Jeff Mastronardo: that was telling me that they look just as bad as

Mike Traynor: you thought they would look?

Yeah. They’re, they’re. A lot of their guys are hurt again. Yet again, It just never fails. This, this, this

Jeff Mastronardo: team Coots is out like for the season, right?

Mike Traynor: Mm. Not sure they’re, they’re not saying, I mean his like

Jeff Mastronardo: second or third back surgery,

Mike Traynor: it’s just an undetermined timeline. Week to week, whatever that means.

Jeff Mastronardo: Week to week he’s having

Mike Traynor: back surgery. No, he’s not having surgery. Oh, he is not? No. So that’s maybe good news, but whatever. Ryan Alice was the same thing last year. It’s just amazing. You know, there, there’s a few young guys that are trying to make the team third or fourth liners, [00:08:00] and there’s, you know, you’re questioning like, Oh, is is this guy gonna crack the lineup?

And it’s like, this is one of the worst teams in the league. And if, if you’re, you’re talking about guys who are maybe not good enough to make the flyers third or fourth line, they’re not very good . Yeah. They’re so out talented. It’s not even. It’s just not even, it’s not even funny.

Jeff Mastronardo: All right, well, we can’t, we can’t go week to week of doing a podcast of just talking about how bad they are.

What are they going to do about it? Like, is there any, is there anything they can do?

Mike Traynor: Realistically, not really, because if you’re trying to blow up your team and get rid of high priced guys, nobody wants ’em or nobody will take their contracts. At least

Jeff Mastronardo: can you just lose and then you’ll get Conard or something like that.


Mike Traynor: guaranteed. The, the lottery is like, you might, maybe it’s a 40%

Jeff Mastronardo: chance. I think if you’re the worst team in the league, your lottery chance is

Mike Traynor: 40%, something like that. It’s not, it’s not a lock at. [00:09:00] Ugh,

Jeff Mastronardo: it’s more of a lock in basketball, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Traynor: They changed it all so that you’re not purposely tanking and all that, but thank

Meghan Tait: you.

Sixers .

Mike Traynor: Right, right. Um, that’s, I mean, the question’s a good one, but unfortunately the answer’s like, Nah, a lot you can do. Full blow up. You could in theory, and that’s ugly too, but you’ve got the ownership. Who’s not on board with that? How

Jeff Mastronardo: many years until they can be viable again,

Mike Traynor: minimum. Excuse me. Minimum three. Oh,

Jeff Mastronardo: that’s rough. ,

Mike Traynor: it’s my

Jeff Mastronardo: opinion. Like they don’t, Do they even have a guy to build around?

Mike Traynor: Carter Har Carter goalie,

Jeff Mastronardo: Anybody who skates out?

Mike Traynor: No. I mean, it’s, it’s anybody who might be that guy is, um, a teenager and is not on, It’s not playing pro hockey yet. Yeah. [00:10:00]

Jeff Mastronardo: So, All right, so we’ll check

Mike Traynor: back was was supposed to be that guy talking about future Norris Troph. He’s horrible. Yeah, he was bad last year and he looks to be just the same.

Jeff Mastronardo: So you’ve watched preseason hockey?

I have

Love to see the ratings on that. It just, Mike Trainer. It just says Mike Trainer. Have you watched any of those Sixers?

Meghan Tait: Um, I watched a little bit of their game the other night against Brooklyn. Ben Simmons, um, Joe didn’t play. James Harden didn’t play, and Tyre Tyrese Maxey was like the best player on the floor with How did he look?

Kevin Durant and Kyrie Tyrese. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Matisse looked decent, which I hate to say, um, Tobi like shot a wide open three and didn’t hesitate, and I was like, if he could do that twice a. Sure. I’ll be slightly more Okay. With his absurd [00:11:00] contract. Uh, yeah. I guess they start in like two weeks.

Okay. Um, obviously expectations are very high. Um,

Jeff Mastronardo: do, are they gonna add another piece this season

Meghan Tait: not to start? . Yeah. This is the roster that’ll get them through the first half of the year.

Jeff Mastronardo: So who’s the short? He’s not short, but he’s shorter and wider guy that they added from? PJ Tucker. PJ Tucker. Is he like our sixth man or is he a starter?

Meghan Tait: Um, I think they’re probably gonna go. Harden, Maxi, um, and then probably PJ in the three, Tobi, us in the four, and Joe in the five. Okay. And then they signed this kid De Anthony Melton from Memphis who. A really nice three and D guy, so he could be in place of PJ Tucker. Um, I just think he’s [00:12:00] gonna take more time to get into the system.

He’s much younger. I think he played at Memphis for like two years. Like I think he’s still in his rookie deal. PJ Tucker’s just been the league forever, so there’s not gonna be as much of a learning curve. Yeah. Um, but that’s. Flexibility that they haven’t had in a long time to be able to like manipulate the lineup in a good way.

Okay. Based on who they’re playing. Um, yeah. So we’ll see. I’m trying not to get too excited too early.

Jeff Mastronardo: Well, we’re wildly excited about the Eagles. Yeah, we are. , you’re wildly excited about the Phils, I wouldn’t say why I’m, I’m happy they made the playoffs after 11 years. True. Um, I mean, I don’t think they’re gonna go anywhere.

Yeah. A three game series I think is anybody’s game. I don’t care who they’re playing. Mm-hmm. . Um, when you have bats, like we have in pitch pictures like we have for those two or three games, if they make it outta the second or the first round, great. [00:13:00] I don’t know, they’ll get much further, but it’s baseball so anything can happen.

Yeah. Um, Sixers, I’m stoked about. Yeah. And the flyers, I don’t think we talk about on this podcast for another year or two. ,

Meghan Tait: Mike, you might have to become a Sixers fan. ,

Jeff Mastronardo: yeah. .

Meghan Tait: All right, you wanna get into it? Let’s do it. So for Coaches Corner today we’re gonna talk about goals and specifically unattainable ones.

Um, most of our plan financial planning discussions begin with goals. We ask clients to describe to us their hopes and their dreams, and it’s often one of the more rewarding parts of our process is hearing these conversations begin that way, and then, seeing those goals achieved. Um, however, it doesn’t always work out that way.

Sometimes goals are unattainable for any number of reasons. Um, I recently had a conversation with a client who, um, Has a particular goal relating to real estate, wants to sell [00:14:00] or her home and, and move somewhere else. But her husband just completely disagrees. It’s not what he wants for, for, for a lot of reasons.

So those are some of the situations that we’re presented with, right partners, not, not necessarily agreeing, but then there’s the types of goals that are just not feasible from a financial standpoint. So today we’ll kind of talk about how we handle those situations, um, and then often or ultimately, , they, it ends up kind of moving

Jeff Mastronardo: forward.

I, I, I liked your commentary on this. I mean, the, the goals part is very rewarding. It’s one of my favorite parts. I love being in one of that first, one of those first meetings and asking people like what their goals are, and it’s amazing how many people struggle with it. Oh yeah. I mean, they really don’t have, or it’s like, I want to get really great returns.

Okay. Well, we have to really kind of get more granular about your goals. Like what, you know, do you really want to accomplish? I want to have 30,000 bucks in my kids’ 5 [00:15:00] 29 plan. I want to have a million bucks by the time I’m 50. I mean, just, I want to go to BA or wherever that place is that you guys were talking about the other day.

Um, you know, I want to, I want to do date night with my, with my, my partner three times a month and be able to afford that. I mean, that’s, I love hearing people kind of rattle through that stuff. I can remember with one younger couple that we met with, um, when they do that exercise and they really vibe off five off each other.

I mean, they actually like high fived each other. Um, but sometimes we do have those people that come in and it’s like, I want to retire when I’m 60. And it’s like they have no money. Mm-hmm. . And there’s a lot of times where we have to kind of be that bad guy. Or we’ve got bad person and say, um, you know, it’s gonna be really difficult unless you change your lifestyle, unless you save X, Y, and Z way more than you’re doing now.

And even then it’s gonna be [00:16:00] difficult. And I feel like it’s a flip of a coin. I don’t know how you guys feel that those clients will either respond receptively or we, we just don’t hear from them.

Meghan Tait: Ye, uh, yes. I, I agree. I think the, the stage of the relationship with the client matters a ton, right?

Oftentimes when we start these engagements, the, the, the goals that are just. Not doable. Like that’s where I think the com, the, the relationship can pretty much end right? Where it’s like, if you’re not telling me what I want to hear, I don’t want to pay you for your advice, even though that’s not how it should work.

I, I think there’s other examples where we’ve had experience with people and while we’re still looked at as maybe the bad guy, right? The bearer of bad news are not so good news. , Yeah. They value our advice. They’re coming to us with, [00:17:00] you know, the idea, the hope that we, we, we can be, we can fill that role of not just being yes people, and it, it sucks when it’s relating to things they want to accomplish, but we’ve also been doing this long enough to sometimes be able to spin it.

Right. Okay. Maybe it’s not the house in Florida that you can afford, but you know what, You could realistically rent for a month there every winter. Right. Is is that sufficient in, in making you feel like, we’re you. , there’s some sort of element of what you’re trying to accomplish. So I think the type of relationship, the standing of the relationship that we have matters a little bit in terms of, of the outcome.


Mike Traynor: I think, um, it’s funny sometimes you, you, with people’s unrealistic goals, you, you say to yourself, How do you not know this? That this is not possible? How, like, what, what facts are you operating with here? Cause it’s very evident, right? If you. Look at the conditions on the [00:18:00] field, and like somebody who says, I wanna retire in two years, and they have nowhere near enough.

Or in some cases they’ll have, they’ll have done like the spreadsheet jockey thing where they just plug in numbers with an assumed, you know, withdrawal rate and return and it works out. And it’s like, no, that’s not life, that’s not reality. The market’s not gonna deliver 8% a year every year from now to.

you know, you’re 90. In fact, it could be way, way, way worse than that. And let’s show you, and this is why like retiring at 60 is, is idiotic, right? That’s

Jeff Mastronardo: what I get a lot of, Like, I can think of a specific client right now. When we met them, they were, I mean, I remember it very clearly. We had a, we have a million bucks.

We know we need like 40,000 a year from that. I mean, I know if I just divide a million by 40, it’s like 25 or 30 years. and I was looking at them like, it just doesn’t work that way. I mean, unless, first of all, [00:19:00] you’re not indexing the 40 for inflation. Markets don’t go up in a straight line, and they had a very difficult time wrapping their heads around that concept.

I mean, I guess I could have said, Yeah, sure, you don’t need us. Just put the million in your money market and you’ll probably run outta money by the time you’re 70. , I don’t think that would’ve been very suitable for me to do that. Um, so I get that a lot that just, they, they don’t really have conceptually how the numbers work and how this whole like plan works.

Mike Traynor: Yeah. And I mean specifically when it’s someone who’s absolutely reliant on whatever they’ve saved and invested to generate the income, you know, it’s. Um, just so it’s, it’s funny how different there’s, there’s really to me two very different types of people that we work with, right? It’s that it’s someone who we’re helping figure out the income plan under all kinds of different scenarios and plan B and plan C and all that.

Um, and it’s very like [00:20:00] labor intensive on an ongoing basis when things. And then there’s the other that never touches it. Mm-hmm. never will, doesn’t have to, unless there’s some, you know, calamity. Um, like the difference between those two client types is like a. Just night and day. Night and day. I mean, it’s kind of like being captain obvious here, but, um, getting back to the unrealistic goals, it’s, to me, it’s always the former.

It’s the one who’s gonna be really putting pressure on their whatever they’ve saved and want to do too much or spend too much. Um, or just can’t, You’re not gonna make all these, um, you’re not gonna. Jump through all these hoops in the perfect way that you, Yeah, you think you are.

Jeff Mastronardo: We have another client that has like a, a couple million dollars, like three or 4 million bucks, and one of their goals is like, we don’t want to ha, we don’t wanna see it continue to grow and have five, six, 7 million when we die.

We want be able to use it while we’re alive and gift to [00:21:00] our kids. Where do you draw that line where it’s like, that’s kind of an unrealistic goal. I gotta make sure you don’t run outta money and don’t give away too much money at first. Would you consider that like an unrealistic goal as well? And how would you, like, how do you try to balance that one?

Meghan Tait: I think the, I, I wouldn’t say it’s unrealistic. I think it’s, it’s gotta be approached very in a very fluid fashion, right. It’s, it’s not something that we can, by any means, guarantee will happen on any sort of regular basis, but o okay, if that’s the goal, we wanna help facilitate the best we can when markets are killing it, like yeah, those are gonna be the years where you gift and you see your.

Your goal kind of happen. Um, and then there’s gonna be other years where we gotta be a little bit tighter to the vest and we have to be a little bit more conservative. And I think for people like that who want to give away their money as much as we advocate for it, we have to remind them that. , they’re our priority, so we have to [00:22:00] provide guardrails around just giving it away.

Yeah. And there’s gonna be hopefully over a long retired time horizon, a lot of years where they get to do that pretty freely and without a ton of concern. And then there’s gonna be a few years in between all of those where, no, you can’t write the kids a $20,000 check for Christmas this year. Right. It’s.

You gotta , you can’t do it. Um, so I think as long as it’s, if expectations are maybe managed in a sense that we hear you, you can do this, it just might not be in the very kind of, um, in the box way you are thinking. We just have to be a little bit more creative about it.

Jeff Mastronardo: Yeah. And when it comes. Kind of unrealistic goals.

I think people get anchored on their, those, those things. Like the one client I was referring to, they probably in the, in the back of their minds were always like, We just gotta get to a million bucks. Yeah. And then they got there, but that took like [00:23:00] 20, 30 years. And a lot has changed over that time. And then the other client who’s like, I wanna move into that neighborhood or that retirement community.

O okay, you just don’t have enough money. And you, and what, like, you can’t just be anchored on that. You need to set some realistic. From the beginning and engage with someone who can make sure that you can attain them or not attain them, and then be honest with you that you just can’t do it.

Meghan Tait: Yeah, and and I think too, it’s like there’s gotta be some self-awareness, right?

Like it can’t just be you. You can’t be surprised every time you present something that’s, Off the wall , that people that, that were like, Well, no, if you couldn’t afford this, then you probably can’t afford something that costs the same amount of money in a different location or in a different version of that.

Right? Like I, I think hopefully through education and through our ongoing process, people get a sense for, okay, like, Where do I fit? Where do some of these [00:24:00] extra things, you know, come into play? What, what of these really make sense? Cuz as much as it’s our job, they’re also, they’re, we’re talking about adults, right?

Who have to take some responsibility for the way that they think about their money. And we’re not magicians, right? We can’t just like, make shit happen. Right? So I, I, I think the majority of the responsibilities on us, but there’s gotta be some self-awareness

Jeff Mastronardo: on them. Sure. Yeah.

Mike Traynor: All right. Moving on. To

Meghan Tait: a quite different topic, separating sports by sex doesn’t make sense. This is from The Atlantic, written by Maggie Mertons. Maggie’s article calls to question the standard separation of youth sports based on sex, girls compete with and against girls, boys compete with and against boys.

Maggie’s point, however, is that this shouldn’t be the way and the age old boys [00:25:00] are physically superior, may not necessarily be. .

Jeff Mastronardo: I mean, I liked the article. Yeah. I thought it was very interesting. Um, the point that she made about that one girl in youth sports who was just put through the ringer mm-hmm. to play up with boys.

I’m saying play up with boys. And I play with boys. Play with boys. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was kind of bullshit. Yeah. Um, the take about, Size matters was interesting to me. Like if you’re going to measure a female be based on size, like how come the, the small boys can just, So I think when it comes to youth sports, the way I like you can, if you wanna play up, play up.

Like if, if girls wanna play with boys and they can make the team, I think there has to be tryouts. Then make the team. when it gets to the professional [00:26:00] level, I fall on a different camp.

Meghan Tait: I don’t think we can even talk about the professional level. Don’t think there’s any argument . Yeah.

Jeff Mastronardo: Cause it’s like I look at track and field, like Yeah.

The men’s records are lower than the women’s records. Yeah. Now, if a woman wants to compete with the men, because they like in the a hundred meter dash, maybe a, a woman can take fourth or fifth or third Sure. To have a man drop down and race against women, I don’t, I don’t see how that can happen.

Mike Traynor: So, Okay.

So I have a totally different opinion and take on this article than you do. I hated every word in it, and every word. This, the statements that this person. And tries to pass it off as fact is, is exactly one of the things that I get so upset about because people that are so called journalists just [00:27:00] write stuff that’s absolutely patently false, like two plus two equals five.

And they expect everybody to, to nod their heads. I mean, I’m gonna, the quote that she says here, Um, maintaining this binary in youth sports, it reinforces the idea that boys are inherently bigger, faster, and stronger than girls in a competitive setting. A notion that’s been challenged by scientists for years, what, what scientists has challenged that notion for years, Maggie, that is a ball face lie.

And this, didn’t she

Jeff Mastronardo: go into the article deeper saying about, about psychiatrists and psychologists who were challenging it, that it was, it was based on complete bullshit on not biology, but by their environment. .

Mike Traynor: Right. What about biology? Listen, are there plenty of women who are more athletic, big, stronger than some men?

Of course,

Jeff Mastronardo: in youth sports, probably. There’s a lot. It’s

Mike Traynor: generalization though, to sit here and make this whole art article about the fact that, I mean, her final sentence, [00:28:00] It’s amazing. Um, as long as the laws and general practice of sports remain rooted in the idea that one sex is inherently inferior, young athletes will continue to learn and internalize this harmful lesson inferior.

You, she threw that word in there intentionally to make this a political thing. Nobody’s talking about inferiority. We’re talking about physical strength. Speed capability. Meg, what do you got? ?

Meghan Tait: Um, I think I’m somewhere in the middle. Definitely don’t feel as strongly about this at all as, as you do. Um, I, I guess.

In my personal experience, which is where this would come from, I can’t imagine, and I was an athlete my entire life, I can’t imagine competing against men. Like even playing sports with my brothers who are far like less athletic than me. They’re bigger and stronger, and it’s, and again, like I’m not, I, I guess [00:29:00] that’s, I don’t wanna generalize, but I, there has to be a separation.

I don’t think that from. inclusive standpoint, women would have as much opportunity as they currently do. If the competition was mixed sex right, women would be set back in the sense that there wouldn’t be as much women competing if the competitors were. Yeah.

Mike Traynor: Yes,

Jeff Mastronardo: 100% right. I think. But what I took from her article was they shouldn’t be excluded if they can compete,

Mike Traynor: but she, she reaches out and, and she’s quoting some sociology professor in Canada, um, and this is the quote she got from this professor.

There are some boys. Who also could get really hurt if they were competing against other boys in contact sports. No, shit. They don’t play like the kid, The little kid’s not gonna play football then because he can’t, [00:30:00] he can’t hang. Right, Right. So don’t sit there and, and make a quote like that as if, to your point Jeff, like the exclusion inclusion thing, the boys will self-select themselves out of the sport that they can’t hang with.


Jeff Mastronardo: That, yeah. Yeah.

Mike Traynor: But that’s not what she’s saying here. This is the, That’s what I mean about these articles. They’re. disingenuous and full of just, you know, assumptions and statements that are just

Jeff Mastronardo: baseless. I think she used a lot of stats and, and language that triggered you. Yeah. I think getting back to the original example that she was given was why was this girl put through the ringer when she can compete at a level with these boys, and if she wants to, why isn’t she allowed?

And with that I’m like, Yeah, if you can compete like Meg, if you can make the boys varsity team right in high school, you should play on it. If you want to, if I want, if you wanna play for the [00:31:00] girls of varsity team and dominate there, but,

Mike Traynor: but she’s making the argument that there should not, should be no separation.

Uh, team. It should be one team and come, come one, come

Jeff Mastronardo: off. Yeah. I didn’t get that from that and that’s probably just cause I missed it.

Meghan Tait: No, I don’t, I don’t think it’s, it’s something you miss. I think it’s. It’s maybe overarching, it’s not deliberate in how she’s saying it, but she’s suggesting that there should be no boys or girls.

It should be boys and girls. Yeah.

Jeff Mastronardo: I kind of ignored that. Cause I’m like, I felt like that’s just a ridiculous statement, .

Meghan Tait: Right. And I

Mike Traynor: just kind ofd it. That’s my trick. Cause that to me, that’s the whole article is she’s making that. Yeah. But I

Jeff Mastronardo: just, this

Meghan Tait: particular example that she’s describing, For this young woman in the Bronx who had to go through a legitimate physical in order to be, to determine whether or not she could compete.

When someone two years younger and much smaller who happens to be a boy, just got to sign up. Of course. Is that a yes? Like I Everyone would agree if there’s girls who want to, [00:32:00] Sure. I don’t, I don’t know that like there’s just not gonna be enough girls who wanna give up the opportunity to excel among female.

To then possibly play among dudes. Right. And I think the older we get, you know, when you’re in second and third grade, who cares? When you’re in middle school, probably not that big of a deal. But we’re talking about like a freshman girl and a high school senior dude. Like that’s completely two different humans, a freshman girl and a senior.

A freshman dude and a senior boy, like when you talk about mixing pools at those levels and then you go to the college level, and like I said, I don’t even think you can touch professional like it. There would be no place for women, and I’m not saying that as. Somebody who doesn’t firmly believe that women are accomplished and deserve the place.

It’s that there we’re, we’re just not the same. Yeah. So, and I don’t think that should be insulting to anybody. Like

Mike Traynor: Yeah, I agree. But Jeff, you’re right. Like the, the [00:33:00] example of the, of the girl that wanted to play football and they made her mm-hmm. , how many pulps can you do? And they put her through all these, , of course, but I’m, I’m looking at the title of this article, Separating Sports by Sex Doesn’t Make Sense.

Yeah, that’s the conclusion I didn’t even

Jeff Mastronardo: read, I didn’t even read the title of the article, . Anyway. Yeah, I mean, when you get to high school, I mean, that’s why freshman boys don’t make the, the, the Varsity football. Right, Because they’re just not big and strong enough. Yeah. And they’ll get murdered if they go out there.

Yep. Even if it’s a freshman girl, like she’ll get murdered as she goes out there.

Meghan Tait: It’s why we separate sports by age. It’s why certain sports have weight classes, right? Like if we think about the reason we play sports, it’s to compete and by compete you hope to play against people who are of similar abilities.

Separating by age, by weight, and [00:34:00] by sex allows us to do that. If we didn’t and it was just one pool of people, everybody competing for the same spots, then we’d have like 12 athletes and everybody else. We’d have all of the LeBron James and everybody else, like then, then nobody gets to play sports. How is that fun or fair?

Right. I think women who want to, should, I just personally don’t think there’s many of them.

Jeff Mastronardo: Yeah. There’s probably not. Yeah. There’s probably not a whole lot of women that are like, I want to go play at that level with them.

Meghan Tait: All right. Maybe something slightly less controversial. Um, well, let’s just about takes, I like that.

Um, we came across an article on Forbes that talked about explanations for work performance, and it led to a little bit of a more general discussion around different forms of mental and emotional testing, IQ tests, standardized education. [00:35:00] Personality tests and those types of things have been around for a long time.

So today we’ll kind of talk about their validity and how much they do or should matter.

Jeff Mastronardo: So, I mean, I’ve brought this up because like I’ve always been kind of fascinated by the IQ test. I don’t remember if I’ve ever taken one. I probably have taken one and that’s why I don’t remember because I probably didn’t score so well on it.

Um, but. . I’ve been curious like, like when’s the last time either one of you have taken an IQ test if you’ve ever taken one? I mean, again,

Mike Traynor: I know I took one in elementary school and that might’ve been the last time.

Meghan Tait: Yeah. If mine would’ve been in low level school and, and I’m saying in school, I don’t know if it was specifically an IQ test, but it was some sort of, um, something to measure intelligence to determine whether or not I was.

If I should be in gifted programs, like if [00:36:00] I, if I wasn’t gonna sit in the regular math class, I was gonna go somewhere else for math or somewhere else for English. So I sat, I went from my normal population of classroom to a smaller group of kids. So you

Jeff Mastronardo: were in a gifted program? I was, yeah. Like, I’m assuming you were also in gifted

Mike Traynor: programs?

Yeah, I had the same experience as me ,

Meghan Tait: but, And then, And then in high school, it was like you took honors classes or AP classes, Like there wasn’t a gifted program that you just took more difficult classes. What’s ap? Advanced Placement. Placement. Yeah. I

Jeff Mastronardo: wasn’t in honors or AP either. I kind of just meandered around at that kind of average level.

Mike Traynor: I guess this all leads to standardized testing generally, right? Like SATs and. All that kind of stuff. What’s your take on those? I think I can understand that testing people’s aptitude, you know, math, English, whatever it is. Um, I can understand you want to have something to standardize to, to [00:37:00] be able to maybe draw some conclusions, but I think they’re bullshit.

I mean, I think there’s people that are good test takers. I was one of ’em. I had hardly any problem. , um, memorization of stuff. That’s one of the biggest factors in my opinion, biggest success factors in the school is regurgitation ability. Um, so I did generally always pretty well on those things, but I think they’re, I think they’re near useless for predicting success in a job or at a, at a, um,

Jeff Mastronardo: Educationally or, But colleges rely on them pretty heavily, right?

Well, they,

Mike Traynor: but that’s gone less and less. I mean, will, um, will did not have to submit scores, SATs cause they weren’t great and it worked in his

Meghan Tait: favor. Um, Yeah. They allow you to do like test


Jeff Mastronardo: Yeah. I know this is very ignorant of me to say. Cause I, I’m not talking like there, there’s no, I’m sure a teacher or someone in, in a college, what are they called?

Admission admissions. Yeah. Would be able to [00:38:00] answer that. But like, I don’t see. Reason for SATs, right? Like if I have, And

Mike Traynor: then you have like, like I was saying, I think there’s an attempt to try to level the playing field of applicants. So you can compare a kid who goes to school in California at whatever school to somebody else who’s, you go

Jeff Mastronardo: to school in California, you have the same grades as me.

We, we Different school though. Different everything. We both work outside of school. We both are involved in, in, in, in, um, sports and clubs. and just because you scored a 1200 on your s a t and I scored a nine 50, you get in or we’re gonna select you because of that and because that’s gonna give us a, a better potential alumni.

That’s exactly it. I just don’t think it makes any sense. There is no, there is like, show me the, the black and white connect the dots that Yep. We’ve, we’ve made that selection. This kid, we selected this kid over that kid and that worked out for. That kid, uh, Graduat that we took, graduated and became a very successful, um, [00:39:00] entrepreneur and now donates to work.

Cause that’s what they’re doing. I mean, they wanna accept kids that will get good jobs and then donate

Mike Traynor: back to that. I believe though I know this, I would, I would guess there’s this correlation between high higher s a t scores and success because in. It might demonstrate some aspect of diligence and effort and that kind of thing that, I’m not saying I believe this, but I think there’s gotta be something that there

Jeff Mastronardo: is a correlation between success and s a T scores.

Why are, why are schools relying on s a T scores less ?

Mike Traynor: Because, well, number one, there was, there was, uh, Covid was, was part of that. And then number two, there’s a lot of controversy about whether they’re biased towards certain races and groups and things like that. So, um, I think the answer’s a little complicated there, but

Meghan Tait: I think we’ve also gotten to the point where higher institutions have kind of established themselves in, in a hierarchy.

Meaning we have the [00:40:00] IVs, we have the IV adjacent, we like, we have these marketing programs at these schools that. Have benefited immensely from years and years and years of this type of testing, so that maybe the need to select from scores is less because kids self-select like, I’m a Harvard level student, or my parents tell me I’m Harvard, or My parents went to Harvard.

You know, I think for years it. You, you, you were trying to, I, I believe that these tests afford what you are saying, right? Good students who get good jobs, who end up becoming good alumni. But then I think it’s also the ability for these schools to hold themselves out as we’re ranked here in terms of the applicants that we accept.

Right. It, it may, it creates a level of exclusivity that benefits the institutions from a monetary standpoint. A lot of that has [00:41:00] kind of already been set. I’m not saying that schools aren’t gonna change and some schools are gonna be better, but like the tiers of academic institutions that exist in this country, Are so they don’t have to rely on selecting the best students necessarily cuz they get the best students to apply or they get the students that are of their caliber to apply.

Mike Traynor: Yeah, and I think, I mean it’s, there’s a huge like onion to peel because like you look at socioeconomically, you’re more likely. Have an easier road in, in your career if you come from say, wealthy Paris, right? Mm-hmm. , and all these like S A T prep courses and other ways to boost your score that many other people don’t have access to.

Actually produces results. Mm-hmm. Sure. And, and, and increases your chances of going to that iv, let’s say, and then becoming that coveted alumni, cuz you, [00:42:00] you come from the right stock, quote unquote. Right. That’s exactly why I

Jeff Mastronardo: think they’re just bullshit. I agree. I mean, I, yeah, I mean that’s, You got a kid who’s busting their ass that doesn’t have the means to take an s a T prep course, but is just a killer.

Gets excluded because of that. And maybe I’m jaded

Meghan Tait: because of every kid should get into every school they apply to. No,

Jeff Mastronardo: not at all. But I think I, I think boiling it down to the s a T score as a, or a standardized test is the determining factor whether you should take someone or not. I, I, I, I don’t know if, and I, I would question that there’s a correlation there that that’s the better.

Kennedy, when I took a standardized test for my first job and I said, You’ll, you will not be successful in business. Like, excuse me. I just don’t think, I don’t think they’re accurate. I, I don’t think they tell the whole story is a, is a better way to say it.

Meghan Tait: They definitely don’t tell the whole story, [00:43:00] but I think to Mike’s point, there has to be some connection at some point that like they told enough of the story and maybe it’s just less

Jeff Mastronardo: now.


Mike Traynor: So you’re saying, Jeff, if you have two identical candidates from different parts of the country that have done the same, they have the same gpa, same course load, same activities. You’re not in favor of breaking the tie by looking at how they do on a test. I would

Jeff Mastronardo: probably break the tie by wanting to have like a discussion with the person to see how that person carries themselves.

Or like their theme paper, whatever it is they gotta submit. Like, yeah, what, how, how to, But even that

Meghan Tait: could be, but that subjective, right? Be written by somebody or subjective, I guess. Yeah. That people,

Jeff Mastronardo: Yeah. I mean, I think the test scores, So what, so you, you do well on your SATs, who gives a. , Apparently all the colleges in the country,

Meghan Tait: Yeah.

Jeff Mastronardo: Maybe I’m just jaded because I didn’t do well, my sat, but we

Mike Traynor: also talked about, you know, the, the [00:44:00] GMATs or the LSATs, or the MCATs, which are the, you know, getting into post college. Yeah. Law school, me, med school, whatever. Um, business school, like same thing there. Mm-hmm. , they, they use a measuring stick there to weed out the candidates.

Um, I just don’t know how else you do it. You couldn’t, you couldn’t possibly logistically have like in person interviews, I mean, college as expensive enough as it is. How would that even work? Yeah, I don’t know.

Jeff Mastronardo: Yeah. Also my own college where I do interviews to get in

Meghan Tait: All right. We wanna go to our top five. Sure, sure. Top five sitcom theme songs. Who wants to go first?

Jeff Mastronardo: I will. I mean, I think there might be a lot of overlap. So like number five for me was Facts of Life, right? Cause it’s just catch. , Um, number four for me was the Jeffersons moving on up. [00:45:00] Mm-hmm. , I mean, when you hear it, like everybody knows moving on up.

I mean, everybody knows it. Like I don’t, So to the East side, , you’re too young. Um, number three for me is 18. Oh yeah. I mean, the tune is just catchy. , uh, don’t do that one either. Number two is Sanford and Son. Again, it’s, it’s, I had that, It’s the tune. It’s a great tune. It’s a great tune. And then number one for me, I mean, if when you hear it, you just sing it like Gilligans Island,

Meghan Tait: I cannot believe you didn’t have one that I have.


Jeff Mastronardo: how do you not sing Gilligan’s Island when someone else is singing? I don’t

Meghan Tait: know that song either.

Jeff Mastronardo: Really? Yeah. When I start going through the names, the professor ran . I mean, you have to sing it. All right. Sorry. That was it. So who’s next? Go ahead,

Mike Traynor: Mike. I’ll go. Um, I did have Sanford son mine, but, um, another one I have on here, and it’s purely the tune, it’s [00:46:00] Barney Miller.

And by the way, I never watched a single episode of Barney Miller, so, Oh, that’s a show. Yeah. Okay. But it’s just like the baseline going, boom, boom, .

Jeff Mastronardo: That’s just a good wait. Barney Miller isn’t all in the. No, that’s a totally different show. Different show. Okay.

Mike Traynor: Yeah. I’ve got Married with Children. That’s a good one.

Oh, that’s a good

Jeff Mastronardo: one. Just cuz the song is Yeah. Funny for me. Funny. Now that’s a real song, right? Yeah. Okay.

Mike Traynor: Yeah. Um, I have the Fresh Prince of Bellaire. Can’t

Meghan Tait: believe you didn’t have that.

Jeff Mastronardo: Yeah, I’m protesting Will Smith like 100% completely. Why? Because he slapped Chris Rock.

Meghan Tait: Oh my God. Are you kidding?

Jeff Mastronardo: No, no.

That’s why I didn’t make my list. I’m done with him.

Meghan Tait: You’re kidding. I’m not kidding. Are

Jeff Mastronardo: you being serious? Right. Get serious. I’m done with Will Smith.

Meghan Tait: I’m done with. That’s insane. No it’s not. Yes

Jeff Mastronardo: it is. How this next movie that comes out fails, which is coming out soon. I hope no one goes to see it.

Meghan Tait: I’m, I’m sorry to take away from your top five.

I am [00:47:00] shocked. I think

Jeff Mastronardo: he’s a child and I, I don’t support anything he does anymore.

Meghan Tait: Someone was talking shit on your wife. You wouldn’t punch them in the face after I was

Jeff Mastronardo: laughing at their joke. No, probably not. I would look

Meghan Tait: like a full, You would punch someone in the face. Don’t sit in the front row. If they said less about Melissa than what he said about J Don’t say in the front row at a comedy show then.

All. All right. Sorry, Mike .

Mike Traynor: Um, I’ll just go, my last one is, uh, Curb Your Enthusiasm simply because it’s like eight seconds long and it gets right into the show. Dude, there’s like no real. It’s a good one. Yeah. Yeah. It just, it’s like we don’t need like a whole intro. Let’s just go.

Meghan Tait: Steven texted me like an hour ago.

I was like, I know Mike’s number one is gonna be curb, curb . Um, alright, well I have fresh prints. I also just have beef with this generally because like Skip intro has changed the game. Like I don’t listen to theme. Sure. Uh, so just wanna point that out. , uh, Brady

Jeff Mastronardo: Bunch. I mean, it, it’s

Meghan Tait: in, it’s in all time.

It’s iconic, even if the show is [00:48:00] corny. Yeah. And kind of weird. Here’s a story,

Jeff Mastronardo: like you have to sing it when it

Meghan Tait: comes on. Right, right. Um,

Jeff Mastronardo: of a man named Brady.

Meghan Tait: The, uh, similarly, the full house soundtrack everywhere. Yeah.

Jeff Mastronardo: I cannot stand the full house theme song. It’s not the soundtrack theme song. Thank God.

I want to just throw the TV out the window every

Meghan Tait: time it comes on. Okay. Well, since I didn’t know four, five of your five, I’m gonna assume that there’s one that I would eat as well. Okay. Sorry. That’s alright. Um, so I, I put the new girl theme song on here cuz. , it’s, it’s literally like perfect for the show.

Yeah. Who’s that girl? It’s, it’s just perfect for what the show is. Okay. Um, and then the office theme song,

Jeff Mastronardo: I don’t know it. I never watched the, there’s no

Meghan Tait: words. Um, it’s


Jeff Mastronardo: a, it’s just

Meghan Tait: a tune, just a jingle. It’s, it’s just an instrumental, Yeah. If you will.[00:49:00]

Jeff Mastronardo: So, yeah, I guess this was more of a generational top five because when in Mike and, and my generation, you couldn’t fast forward mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So you had to listen to the theme songs if you’re watching your show. Yeah. Which

Meghan Tait: I listened to. The full House theme song that would’ve been of that Yeah.

Generation for me and I guess The Fresh Prince a little bit. Brady Bunch was before my time, but everybody knows that song.

Jeff Mastronardo: All right. All right. Thanks for listening. Bye. See it.

Mike Traynor: Bye.